Cosby attacks Blacks for not taking responsibility...

[unrequited]

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,124486,00.html

I'll try and step lightly, this is a tipsy topic. I agree with Bill Cosby's sentiments. Maybe it's because I grew up in a upper-middle class neighborhood having only one black friend growing up. But living in Newark, NJ has given me a urban/ghetto perspective on things as well.

I sometimes have to sweep the crack vials off my sidewalk, and get haggled for change and handouts in the local mart/stores for being the only non-black in the place. Like I magically have money to burn because my skin color's a little lighter than theirs. There are kids who are wearing $200 coats, and $150 shoes, and hundreds of dollars of jewelry, who say, "Common my n---- I just need a buck for a bag of chips," or my favorite, "Gimmie a quarter, imma buy me loosey." You tell me what's wrong with that picture.

I go to graduate school literally across the street from Central High which is one of the worst schools in the state, and one which one kid got shot last year and another kid knifed last semester (putting police every 25 feet in a 500ft radius of the highschool/college). There are roving gangs which let out every day at 2:30, and some give the college kids a hard time. Once I got challenged by 5 highschoolers because I was practicing Kung Fu on the green, and they wandered over asking me to fight them. What I wanted to say was bury your face in a book, and when you're done with that, bury your face in another. And when you're smart enough to realize that your present attitude/focus on life is going to trap you in the projects down the block, you'll have the drive to make a change, and then it's nobody's fault if you choose not to, not luck, not fate, and certainly not the "man", so take responsibility for your own choices and actions, regardless of your circumstance. What I did say was "I've got class now, maybe when you're older." I don't mind rap/hip-hop, but the lesson that urban kids (kids who hang around the projects down the block from my fraternity house) should be learning, namely "find your niche, do something creative/productive and get rich", is drowned out by the entertainment/down-right fiction of street "lessons" telling kids that the attitude they should have is, "I'm a thug... wut!" Wut indeed.

[Satanic_Hamster]

Hated the tunnel we did in Jersey City. Of course, it was a more mideastern area, so it wasn't as ghetto, and the food was good. However, you aint going to hear me complaining about being in the home office in Lebenon.

But man, Newerk? You couldn't find a graduate school some where civilized?

[Thordic]

Newark rules. I lived there for a year and I still hang out there occassionally.

Going to Orange Fried Chicken at 4 AM and having conversations with crackheads is enlightening.

I really didn't have any problems in Newark, at least it has some character to it. Unlike Camden, which is just a cesspool.

[Thordic]

Oh, by the way, I agree with Cosby, just to keep it somewhat on-track.

[acme420]

i dont like your title. he's not "attacking blacks" he's speaking the truth seeing as how you're not black you prolly wqouldnt understand but i see the shit everyday guys running around having sex and not taking care of their responsibilities, chicks going around spending money on shit they cant afford, teenage boys trying to be gangsters and shooting each other like retards over some dumb shit, gold diggin hoes who dont wanna get with the guy who is smart and is trying to do something for himself but wanna get with the guy who's driving the 80,000 dollar car yet doesnt have a job that pays taxes. its all dumb, and i agree with most of what bill cosby says.

[Princess]

I do agree with Cosby's statements in the regard that the only way people are going to change is if they change themselves. I agree that they have to change, but only because I know that our country won't do it for them. It's the same with women and the glass ceiling. The only way we can change is if we change ourselves and become examples.

For the record, I think your title is fine SK. This form of attacking is simply verbally taking action on a necessary change. He is "attacking" black people because he doesn't agree with what they've done with themselves.

[Kamie]

I agree with his statements. If I wasn't so tired and hungry, I would post something a little more intelligent

[Low-Light]

hmm Great words from a great man. There should be much more of this. I mean all that is true.. I support his statements 110% I have black family members.. friends.. been around the african american crowd.. and many sad to say end up the way it was said. Same for the mexicans... and many of the whites who are surrounded by the now ever increasing minorities.

These bad influences all start because of lack of communication! They start with the parents... Who do not speak to their children about right or wrong..... About morals and valus.. About hope and dreams.... About Goals and life....

Kids are having kids now these days and more then ever. Its a sad site to see, because these kids can barely take care of themselves and have to provide for a young one. And the vicious cycle continues. Kid with kid fed up with kid, because its a KID. So kid dont care soo much, thus kid grows up not caring much and uses the media and other things as a source of Information.

That sort of information is the Wrong form of COMMUNICATION.

Again i believe in Mr. Cosby's words and hope he extends it out not only to the black community but the general population. Children will be children and thats where we need to start... No mater their color or race, they can all become and act the same. But until people understand this, then all you can do is critize people on how poorly they act.

Which isnt all that fair because it starts with the parents, followed by the world.

[Doc Wattson]

I'm just glad Cosby has help get the spotlight off my people so I can opress more efficently.

-Gary-

[Dissman]

It's the same with women and the glass ceiling

But that's changed, you now see women in positions of athority. women can be police chiefs, run fortune 500 companies, be what they want to be, there is even talk of Hillary running for president in 08 (Which i'll be pleased to vote against her, but not based on sexism, i just dislike Hillary).

But women didnt get this far expecting to get it all handed to them, they fought for it, worked for it, struggled for it... they didnt go up and down streets talking like a gangster, they didnt go around saying that "education is MALE, if you go get educated you are being just like a MAN.".. they earned their keep by working damn hard for it, and they will continue to earn their keep and the other issues in the workplace world will eventually come into relative balance... same with black americans, they can do the same thing, but not by refusing to take the lead.

[darien]

It's the same with women and the glass ceiling

But that's changed, you now see women in positions of athority. women can be police chiefs, run fortune 500 companies, be what they want to be, there is even talk of Hillary running for president in 08 (Which i'll be pleased to vote against her, but not based on sexism, i just dislike Hillary).


Your bubble might feel burst after reading this article.
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/79/women.html

[Kamie]

No more glass ceiling for women? You are so dumb as to think that women still do not have crap to deal with in the workplace?!?!?!?

Try being a woman working in the IT field where it is predominately male at a place that has been predominately male for quite a while.

I did an internship at Georgia Tech Research Institutute and was the first woman they ever hired in the history of their division. Only reason I was hired was that they were required to hire atleast 1 woman or face losing federal funding. It was not a fun position to be in. I got constant comments about not being able to do things because I was female along with surprise that I was as good as I was in spite of my gender. And no matter how good a job I did, I still had problems. I also overheard my supervisor talk about me one day saying "sure she is smarter than any of the others but she lacks qualaties that only a man can possess." I also found out that I was payed less than my male counterparts and that as soon as the federal government was done doing their affirmative action audit that I was out of there. Which did happen and I was told that funding for my position was cut.

But that is just a little snippet of the crap out there that women end up having to deal with if they want a job that has been primarily held by men.

[Dissman]

I did an internship at Georgia Tech Research Institutute and was the first woman they ever hired in the history of their division. Only reason I was hired was that they were required to hire atleast 1 woman or face losing federal funding. It was not a fun position to be in. I got constant comments about not being able to do things because I was female along with surprise that I was as good as I was in spite of my gender. And no matter how good a job I did, I still had problems. I also overheard my supervisor talk about me one day saying "sure she is smarter than any of the others but she lacks qualaties that only a man can possess." I also found out that I was payed less than my male counterparts and that as soon as the federal government was done doing their affirmative action audit that I was out of there. Which did happen and I was told that funding for my position was cut.

This is the kind of thing affirmative action causes, everyone knew that you were there, merely because "we need a woman to keep our federal funding" rather than "She's the best person for the job." If there was not affirmative action, and instead a law that says you can not be descriminated against on the basis of race, sex, or prety much anything else. This kind of thing would change, when having a woman is more about her talents, her skills, and less about her sex and the fact that having her looks good to the federal government... maybe we could have some more real progress.

You were hired merely due to affirmative action, not on your skills... you should have hit them with an Anti-Discrimintion suit. You reaped what the federal government sowed.

[Kamie]

Oh looking back, I know all that. It is just an example :)

[[gh]Spurty]

Try being a woman working in the IT field where it is predominately male at a place that has been predominately male for quite a while.

This is how I see it. In IT, I have so far, met 2 women who had a clue what their job was. 2 out of about 20. thats 10% success rate. Conversely I have met 30 out of about 45 guys who had a clue what they were doing. Thats a 75% success rate.

What worries me more than the attitude of men and women in the office is that there are clearly a LOT of people in offices working who should not be there. Why pick on or bother the people who know what they are doing.

Heck, I've had 6 women in one office trying to get into my pants and its certainly very uncomfortable. I don't just mean at the Christmas party when they get drunk and try to leap on my lap while their husbands and boyfriends are talking to me either. I mean mentally, the head games men and women play and the power struggles between them.

I've also noticed that as I don't have a bald head, beard, limp, gammy arm or bad acne and grey hair, promotions don't come my way either. Now I do know some very intelligent and damned nice people who Bill Cosby is proud off, however they are indeed sadly the exception to the rule (and if they ever need my help, I'll be right there for them, no excuses).

Back to Bill Cosby.

I've had a black girl friend and damn, I know what he means. Heck, I got hit in the face with a stick, punched about 12 times in the mouth and had my car scratched to peices for seeing her and endless verbal nonsense.

Ok, she was a model and I was smitten and stuck with her for about 3 weeks longer than I should, but heck the mentality of her friends & family means she will never be anything more than a low life (and I know she wanted to get away from that life). Tough titties

No one to pull her out of the gutter as her friends are doing their best to ruin her life for her. Har, I even knocked one of her brothers out for swinging at me at her birthday party (that was the end of that relationship). Lovely way to go about doing things. I hope she made it, but I doubt it.

No offense, but I've never had an issues while dating Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Veitamese, French, Spainish, Portugese, Italian, Brazilian, Irish, Scottish or Dutch girls (ah, memories of my youth).

Their families were the kindest people known to man. Heck, I even dated a girl whose family were Jahova Witnesses and I've never been once verbally or physically assaulted (probably should have been *cough*).

Take one nice black lady out on the town and the blood rush hits the ignorant people. Get over yourselves and please be nice. People will reciprocate and pull you up out the gutter, if only you would let them. No, having a nice car in the drive way doesn't mean you are successful if you are still an asshat and have no food in your refridgerator.

I think Bill Cosby is upset that although there are roll models out there, kids are following the 'pop/rap stars' rather than the 'roll models' like himself because they are confused by the signals (or a lack of good signals) of their peers.

We should have another thread about who our role models are. I bet, even though you *think* you don't have any, you really do.

There aren't any books out there to tell you how to live your life in a prosperous way, so you have to work out what is properity and who do you know has the qualities to get that. Then you follow them.

Its all subconcious, but I guess if you fail to find that person and you are offensive to people, Hollywood is where you probably end up looking (because the tv doesn't shout back at you).

Oh, my African friend Peithok, who I miss a lot, would have a lot to say about this subject. I wonder if I could get him to join up on the forums?

Good to see some very articulate entries on this thread and no racial slur.

Also, person who started this thread. I had a slightly different issue to you (with regards to people picking fights). I was often picked on at school (for being small compared) until I reached about 12 years old and the tables turned (I started working and didn't have time for games like this so I started ending fights rather too fast). I found that I had to take Judo classes to learn control as I was unintentionally hurting those that attacked me.

Moral of the story is, thatas fun as it was to beat up school bullies and never get told off (they often picked on my Computer friends, big mistake for them), it was wrong of me. Some times it takes nearly 20 years to know this :oops: you are wiser than I :P

Oh and if you ever meet a guy named Desmond Albrighten (he has a stutter) he once attacked me from behind while I was walking my dog. Feel free to mash his teeth in for he is as cowardly as the come. For the curious, the dog won the fight, I think. I was pretty badly cut up and bruised.

Heck, now I think of it, growing up is painful regardless of rolemodels and opportunities.

Right, I'm off to bed (laughing at what became of stuttering Des, probably a paedaphile or an accountant)

[darien]

I think Bill Cosby is upset that although there are roll models out there, kids are following the 'pop/rap stars' rather than the 'roll models' like himself because they are confused by the signals (or a lack of good signals) of their peers.


And yet here is P. Diddy/Sean Combs/Puffy (one person, multiple names) acting on Broadway and telling his life story to the news media, how he pulled himself up from cleaning restrooms to entering the music industry, and now working the stage scene.

Will Smith spent his early years installing refrigerator units in grocery stores with his father.

The Jacksons... well, nevermind.

Colin Powell, Barak Obama.

People pick their role models. Perhaps Cosby is trying to say "pick more carefully."

[Dissman]

I think Bill Cosby is upset that although there are roll models out there, kids are following the 'pop/rap stars' rather than the 'roll models' like himself because they are confused by the signals (or a lack of good signals) of their peers.


And yet here is P. Diddy/Sean Combs/Puffy (one person, multiple names) acting on Broadway and telling his life story to the news media, how he pulled himself up from cleaning restrooms to entering the music industry, and now working the stage scene.

Will Smith spent his early years installing refrigerator units in grocery stores with his father.

The Jacksons... well, nevermind.

Colin Powell, Barak Obama.

People pick their role models. Perhaps Cosby is trying to say "pick more carefully."

Not only that... it was in the news a few days ago, i'm not sure where, the rapper i think it's Ice T's book on poetry is on the reading list for several public schools... and his poetry is basically gangster rap lyrics... meh... i shouldnt get started

[Dissman]

No more glass ceiling for women? You are so dumb as to think that women still do not have crap to deal with in the workplace?!?!?!?

Try being a woman working in the IT field where it is predominately male at a place that has been predominately male for quite a while.

I felt i should touch on this.

As far as the whole glass celing thing goes, i feel that women have come quite far in the workplace world, yet, progress still needs to be made.. i'll admit, i think i understand this kind of thing very well, the pro photo-lab industry tends to be heavily female... and that's one of the two jobs that i work... other than the owner, i am the only man in the office, and i have to deal with a good amount of sexist BS... (including dealing with totally blanket statements about men).

I didnt mean to imply that everything was perfect and that there isnt work to be done... because there is always room for improvement... nothing is ever quite perfect... we as a specie arent perfect, but at least we are finally moving in the right direction in regard to equality between the sexes.

(Insert quip about reverse discrimination regarding "ladies night" here. I want half price stuff too!!)

[ferret]

Please stay on topic. Some posts have been removed. See the forum rules stickied in this forum.

[Smokey]

You really shouldn't generalize people. Take Kamies advice... until you've lived your life as a woman or a black person you cant really know what its like. Research your history and I'm not talking about the shit they teach you in schools.

BTW RAP AND HIP HOP ARE NOT THE SAME... hip hop is a culture and rap is a form of expression. =/

[Dissman]

You really shouldn't generalize people. Take Kamies advice... until you've lived your life as a woman or a black person you cant really know what its like. Research your history and I'm not talking about the **** they teach you in schools.

BTW RAP AND HIP HOP ARE NOT THE SAME... hip hop is a culture and rap is a form of expression. =/

If it's not "ok" as a white male for me to generalize people, then why is it ok for Women and Black people to generalize me as a white male?

This rings almost like Kerry when he said something like: "You dont know what the senate is like, you have no right to question me or my record as a senator, so shut up!" It is impossible to have productive debates / discussions if people are excluded from the discussion just because it hasn't / can't happen to them or they arent a certian color, wont wear a rag around their arm, or any other criteria of such.

This isnt about history, this is about the here and now... we should be focused on creating a better future and a brighter tomarrow. Using History to keep open/reopen old wounds constantly is why we have a good many of the race issues that harm this country.

[cr0nick]

if you havent lived it you cant completely relate to it, you only have an idea of what its like to live a certain way, in the case of african americans living in the ghetto its easier to make money selling crack than working at mcdonalds. its easy for us to say "why cant you educate yourself" or "bury your face behind a book" when we have the opportunity to do something with that education. education isn't important to them, why? because no matter how well you do in school there won't be enough money to support the family and send you off to college. also, rappers shouldnt be blamed for influencing a certain type of mentality on african american teens, the whole "thug" mentality is seen constantly on the streets they live in

[[NAKED] Young DVP]

Sorry cronick, but this is exactly the mentality that I have a problem with. We live in a society full of victims. No one wants or cares to take responsibility for anything anymore. It's always someone or something else's fault for their lot in life. To me that's just a well practiced cop out.

I don't think you have to be a woman or a black or a gay or a jew or any other so-called minority to be able to relate to how someone feels. If you have an ounce of maturity and half a brain, one might suppose what the situation and at least offer a couple viable solutions - right or wrong. It's called 'empathy'.

The term 'African American' itself does nothing to solve the problems the black community faces. It merely continues to separate them from everyone else. You don't hear lighter skinned people calling themselves "European Americans", do you? I'm an American. Period. So are all the gang-bangers in the ghettos (I'm sorry to say) as well as Mr. Cosby.

Just because it's easier to sell drugs than to get a job doesn't make it the right decision. So what if you education doesn't pay off in the first job interview, or the second, or the third, etc. You pick yourself up, dust yourself off, go work another shift or two at McDonald's and try again the next time, and the next, and the next, etc. until something clicks. And you know what, maybe it won't happen but at least you can rest in the knowlege that you didn't sell out.

Ok, so maybe you are not to blame for your lot in life. But neither am I. Nor my parents or their parents. Perhaps you should go ask YOUR OWN parents why they didn't do more to improve their own life, and in turn yours. Marbe they should go ask THEIR parents the same question. How many times are people going to 'pass the buck' before someone stepps up to the plate and takes responsibility for THEMSELVES and stop expecting Joe Taxpayer to lift them out of their misery because of some misguided sense of entitlement that they think they have.

Stop having sex and popping out babies before you can raise them the way you would like to have been raised yourself. Put in the EFFORT to improve yourself, and I PROMISE you that your chances of success are exponentially improved over taking the easy way out of crime and blame.

Pull your pants up over your ass. Speak in a manner that encourages others to speak back to you. Turn the friggin gangsta-rap down to a level that doesn't rumble my windows from 4 blocks away. Get a decent place for you and your family to live BEFORE you spend $400/each for the shiney spinny hub caps. And get your God damned hands out of my pocket!

/rant

[unrequited]

Well put DVP, and that's my opinion exactly.

[[NAKED] Young DVP]

Well put DVP, and that's my opinion exactly.I love you, man.

[cr0nick]

the thing is you do have to live it to be it, you dont know what its like for a mother to abort a child or give it up for adoption, likewise you'll never exactly know what its like to grow up in the neighborhoods that some blacks do, the feeling of desperation, the fact that their is no future, again its easy for any of us to say work harder at this and don't do that because we dont't know what they know, what upsets me about this forum is that people are strictly focusing on the way of life of poor blacks in america when there are parrallels to poor mexican and even white neighborhoods, the question isnt why poor blacks aren't responsible rather, why poor americans aren't responsible

[ferret]

cr0nick hits it on the nail... I think DVP actually said much the same thing just differently. Both are partially correct on one major point: This isn't about just the african american population. Every 'race' that lives within the country has similar problems. Yeah, there's a lot of white rich folks. There's a few rich black, asian, and mexican people too. And there's a WHOLE lot of poor people, of all colors.

American is american. To continue to tact something like "African" or "asian" in front of it only serves to draw the lines everyone claims to be trying to erase.

[PeregrineFalcon]

the thing is you do have to live it to be it, you dont know what its like for a mother to abort a child or give it up for adoption, likewise you'll never exactly know what its like to grow up in the neighborhoods that some blacks do, the feeling of desperation, the fact that their is no future, again its easy for any of us to say work harder at this and don't do that because we dont't know what they know, what upsets me about this forum is that people are strictly focusing on the way of life of poor blacks in america when there are parrallels to poor mexican and even white neighborhoods, the question isnt why poor blacks aren't responsible rather, why poor americans aren't responsible

The reason this thread is using African Americans as an example is because that was who Mr. Cosby is aiming his discussion at. By using African Americans as an example it is staying on topic. All of us here realize the fact that there are other minorities living in the same conditions as African Americans. DVP and urequited (and myself included) all feel that to be something you need to do something. Sometimes you get lucky, but 9 out of 10 times you have to work for that lifestyle you want. I saw this as my mother worked her way up as a single mother to where she is now. It is possible, and a lot of minorities dont seem to notice that it just takes some hard work. Hard work founded this country and will continue to help it develop. If you decide to not be part of society that shares these views you will be left in the dust, and dont come asking those who have worked hard to get where they are for handouts.

/end rant

[squeak]

What ticks me off, is the stereo type that all minorities have no chances of getting to college... either education wise, or more importantly, MONEY WISE. If I was black, mexican, purple, a woman, or disabled, I would have a HELL of a lot easier time paying for college. All my money is through loans, I have <3.5 college GPA, but since Im male and Im white, Im turned away from ALOT, and I mean "white penis need not apply" kind of deal to scholarships and federal help. THAT is my only real gripe right now. My mommy and daddy? Gimmie a break, sure they make a decent living, but they didnt plan ahead for college, and they are not paying for it. If I can do it through loans, any minority can do it through free money.

[steaLer]

well marsh, the only answer i can think of is; there needs to be an external intervention when the natural order is un-balanced to begin with, thus, the goverment steps in an tries to balance the situation.
minorities or immigrants usually have fight the uphill battle to survive, while resident whites already have an established support system.
also, it get the candidate votes.

also, you will find that blacks/women have to work harder than their white/male counter-part just to survive or to get to the same level of reward. there are always people who work harder and get lucky and beat the odds, but i was thinking in general terms.

[[NAKED] Young DVP]

The problem works both ways, I agree. There is a substancial amount of prejudice in the world to this day, and as such certain groups are at a disadvantage.

I am sorry for this. I do not agree with this, advocate or condone it. But it is what it is. Neither did I create the situation. If I could somehow magically erase it and have all people treat all other people equally I most certainly would. But that, unfortunately is not the world we live in. That being said, there is still no excuse for people (of any race or minority) to make the DECISION to ruin - or fail to excel in - their own lives. They must still put forth the effort to positively affect change for themselves, and continue to do so until such change occurs.

The way I see it, this is a self perpetuating problem. Who knows who's got primary responsibilty for the state of things. But for the sake of arguement, let's assume that it started with Joe Whitey keepin' down the little guy. Why is this? Is it about racism? Maybe, but it could be about lack of respect for a group of people who don't seem to respect themselves - or anyone else around them. So the lines are drawn. Joe Whitey ain't giving in, because he does not want that type of element (see last paragraph of previous post for clarification) in their 'back yard'. Wrong? Perhaps. Understandable? Certainly. Now the owness is on the 'oppressed' as to what action to take to rectify the situation. Let's see...

Option 1 - keep trying, by being persistant and behaving in a manner that encourages positive response, albeit this process could take years if it ever happens at all.

Option 2 - blame the problems on society and rely on you elected officials to make it right for you. This leads to such 'solutions' as Affirmative Action, which only makes things a little easier on the 'afflicted' at the expense of the average majority (guys like me). This in turn causes the second group to resent the first group and the division widens.

Option 3 - Give up. Depend on welfare which is a drag on the economy. Live in shacks and projects popping out babies as fast as you can 'cause HEY! They PAY you for that! raise a kid (pfft! raise!), only you don't actually teach them anything other than it's ok to siphon money and services off your fellow man because you just have NO WAY OUT. Crime looks pretty good at this point. Sell a few vials of crack, get a 10 year old kid addicted, buy/steal a Hummer and some koo threads. Life is good, you're livin' the dream baby! Work? Wtf is that?!

So the battle lines are drawn. Someone has got to give if this is ever going to get better. The problem is one group of people is forced to accomodate another, while the other spits in those same faces and refuses to give anything back.

for the record, of all the 'minorities' that are in this coulnty, most are very hard working moral and decent people. Mexicans and Asians especially come to mind. I've never met an asian (not from the US) that looked at me like I was the enemy. Nor have I yet to see a Mexiacan - illegal or otherwise - without dirt under his nails, grubby clothes and covered in sweat after working the jobs that most of us (including our very own 'African Americans') wouldn't even apply for.

I've given my share toward the concept of positive change. I see it come out of my paycheck twice a month. Time for the 'oppressed and huddled masses' to step up and make it happen for themselves.

[squeak]

I dont really care that they DO get those offers, because I agree that the gov should step in and help out when needs be, but im saying is they bix that they have education finacialy SO hard when they really dont. I cant even keep track of how many black kids at my local community college -sign up for classes- -get federal aid- -drop out of class- -get THAT money put in their pocket-

Theres alot of other subjects I could talk about too(Like "African American", "Pakistan", and "Latino" clubs. You dont see me starting the WHTIE AMERICAN club oh no "KKK!!!" -gimmie a fudgesickle break) , but I dont want my opinions taken out of context.

And if women where being all sexist towards me, Id drop my trousers and tell them to kiss my hairy white @ss. That way we were even in court... ;)

[[NAKED] Young DVP]

Marsh, from the rules: "Please stay on topic and keep posts well written in clear English."

Wanna go back up and edit that 4th grade scribble? I honestly have no clue what you're trying to say.
[NAKED] Young DVParaphrase: marsh means to say
1) It's ok that the gov't gives 'less fortunate' people handouts as long as they don't spend it like it's their allowance. [Which is BS, because the gov't has no business being Robin Hood]
2) If it's ok to have BET on cable (Black Ent. TV), then it should be equally ok to have WET [I'll agree with him here, but it's not exactly on topic]
3) If women were sexually harassing men, men would be ok with it. [Well Duh! But again, different discussion]

[ferret edit] I was perfectly capable of reading his post. It wasn't perfect grammar but it was hardly AOL gibberish. [/ferret edit]

[Dissman]

You know what the wonderful thing is, all of the social programs, welfare, johnson's entire war on poverty.... basically throwing money at the poverty problem in the form of welfare checks, over the ENTIRE time it's been done, has not even dented the percentile of people living in poverty... yet we've thrown over $5 trillion dollars at the problem...

Simply throwing money at a problem does not work, it all comes down eventually to a simple old wise saying.

"He who gives a man a fish, feeds him for a day.... he who teaches a man to fish feeds him for a lifetime."

[Smokey]

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=115&subsecID=172&contentID=1749

Check this out.

"The treatment of blacks has been the foremost deviation from the American Creed throughout the history of the Republic. If we count American history as starting around 1600, blacks have been here almost from the beginning. However, unlike whites, they spent their first two and a half centuries, that is, until 1865, as slaves. For the next 100 years they largely served as a lower caste group working under explicit or implicit Jim Crow policies, with little opportunity to gain educational or financial resources. Caste systems, whether slavery or segregation, were much more explicitly hierarchial and hereditary than European feudalism. Blacks have only been given a claim to political equality and economic opportunity since the 1960s."

"Thomas Jefferson and George Washington voiced their concern over the way the treatment of blacks would affect the future of America. Jefferson wrote in 1781 that, "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just."8 Anticipating in 1791 the possibility that the country might break up because it could not resolve the problem, George Washington told a friend that if this happened "he had made up his mind to move and be of the northern."9 Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration, felt -- correctly as it turned out -- that its proclamation that "all men are created equal" would undermine slavery, and that the idea of equality would have a continuing effect on American politics."

[[BUD]Apollo]

Unrequitted whats ghetto about Newark NJ. You guys are the freaking flower state. Move to the projects or South Bonx and then you'll see Ghetto.
Jefferson raped slaves and had a bunch of kids that he kept hiddin.
Washington also had slaves.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Unrequitted whats ghetto about Newark NJ. You guys are the freaking flower state. Move to the projects or South Bonx and then you'll see Ghetto.
Jefferson raped slaves and had a bunch of kids that he kept hiddin.
Washington also had slaves.

Umm this is false. True, Jefferson had slaves, but if you look at history he treated them very nicely. He never raped them. Get your facts right first. Oh and make sure to checkl the forum rules, we try and keep the conversations above 5th grade skills here.