Public broadcast of Muslim "Call to Prayer"

[[NAKED] Young DVP]

Since I sort of hijacked the 'public baptism' thread, I thought I'd open a new discussion on this here:

Public broadcast of "Call to Prayer" in the US (http://www.detnews.com/2004/religion/0405/23/b03-160686.htm)

But what about the whole "Call to Prayer" controversy going on right now? I heard som state in ther mid-west (Wisconsin or Michigan I think) had passed an ordinance ALLOWING the Muslim 'Call to Prayer" to be broadcast over loud speakers in the public square. The justification was that it was no different than church-bells. I disagree.

I don't know (and I must admit, I'm a little uncomfortable that I feel this way), but something about hearing that Islamic babble and jibberish being blasted over loudspeakers makes my skin crawl. I'm all for freedom of religion, but to me that seems like IMPOSING your beliefs upon others. It's not at ALL like church-bells. They are conveying a VERBAL message that - although I don't understand - I do not want to hear. Pubic prayer and baptism I can choose not to see if I don't want to. But my only recourse for the "Call to Prayer" is to leave town? I don't think so...

In this difficult and sensitive time of terrorism and it's unfortunate link to the religion of Islam, this may be a topic of some interest.

Discuss...

[Dissman]

Unfortunately, your entering a gray area here... do they have the 1st amendment right to broadcast this. The answer is yes... as long as they do it without using any city owned equipment.

Although, it is totally inconsiderate and will only fuel religious hatred. I think of it kinda like telemarketing... you dont want to hear it, but they call you anyway... and every time they do.. you say "*^&#ing Telemarketers!!" so what happens when they start doing this... people will say "*^&#ing Muslims!."

But then, this begs an interesting question, if they can basically broadcast anything that they want traditional or not... because it's protected under freedom of religion... couldnt christian churches broadcast their entire sermon??? or couldnt anti-abortion christians establish churches next to abortion clinics, and broadcast over a PA anti-abortion messages?

I hope the leaders of the mosque will consider what a can of worms this opens, as well as offending the non-muslim populace by creating a public nusance.

[Uthor]

I don't mind this at all. I enjoy listening to people talk different languages, so I'd think it'd be interesting that way. I put up with "Preacher Dan" at the UofI campus for many years and, even worse, various student rallies (much, much worse), and I don't see how a 2 minute (10 minutes a day) message would bother me.

The only thing that I would be concerned about is the volume of it. That falls under me being concerned about the volume of crappy music being blasted from car stereos (I just got woken up by Red, Red Wine from a car sitting in the parking lot).

Plus, I'm all for anything that pisses off right-wing Christian whites. Being a right-wing Christian white, I feel the need to say that most are waaaaay too uptight and intolerate of others.

/end random rant after just waking up

P.S. Despite not being a statistition, I believe that queation is a little bit loaded with teh use of the word "force".

[Dissman]

The only thing that I would be concerned about is the volume of it. That falls under me being concerned about the volume of crappy music being blasted from car stereos (I just got woken up by Red, Red Wine from a car sitting in the parking lot).

Well, with the car stereo, you can call the cops, if they catch him, they'll give him a ticket, imagine it being a mosque, blasting out religious doctrine at top volume in a foreign language... and there's nothing you can do about it. If i'm not mistaken, the first call to prayer is at the crack of dawn. Imagine working some odd shift, and being woken up every morning by that and not being able to do anything about it but move... i live next to two churches... and two more a block away, none of them have/use bells... i believe out of respect for the people living around the churches.

Plus, I'm all for anything that pisses off right-wing Christian whites. Being a right-wing Christian white, I feel the need to say that most are waaaaay too uptight and intolerate of others.

Honestly... this is going to piss off anyone who lives in a quarter mile of the mosque... not just christian whites.

P.S. Despite not being a statistition, I believe that queation is a little bit loaded with teh use of the word "force".

By it being legal, people are being forced to listen to it or move... i think the question is proper.

[[gh]Spurty]

If it gives someone a headache, it will come to a halt anyway.

Its sun set and sun rise for prayer and one at about 2pm in the afternoon. :shock:

[[NAKED] Young DVP]

Its sun set and sun rise for prayer and one at about 2pm in the afternoon. :shock: My understanding is that it is 5 times a day. But even 3 would be too much for me.

I defend my use of the word 'force' as this means it limits or drives the types of decisions one has to make as a result. In the event of a public rally or protest, I can walk away or it will be over soon anyway. If I don't like the preachings of Rev. Blowhard I can change the channel or not attend his church. The guy in the car with the loud music should be publicly flogged, but I can drive the other way. But what if I live or work in the neighborhood where this public broadcast is being shoved down my neck? Yes, I do still have a choice but that choice is to either move or find another job. I am being forced to make a decision that I otherwise would not have to.

Dissman is correct - sadly - it is a right of free speech that will allow this to continue. The only impediment would be if it violates some noise ordinance due to the volume. It's moments like this that the rights that we enjoy and hold dear will backfire and could have negative - even violent - consequences.

as for being 'intolerant'... that is such Bullsh**! I hate that expression. It is the excrement of a bleeding-heart-left-wing-radical-liberal supporting the 'feel-good' environment that they are trying to create. A world where there are no winners or losers, where everyone must consider everyone's feelings. That's all well and good, but it usually involves taking rights and property (money) away from one group of people and delivering it to another group of people who didn't (and won't) earn it. I may have to be 'accepting' of those different than me, but don't tell me that I have to be 'tolerant'. Last I knew I was still a free man.

[Uthor]

Well, with the car stereo, you can call the cops, if they catch him, they'll give him a ticket, imagine it being a mosque, blasting out religious doctrine at top volume in a foreign language... and there's nothing you can do about it. If i'm not mistaken, the first call to prayer is at the crack of dawn. Imagine working some odd shift, and being woken up every morning by that and not being able to do anything about it but move... i live next to two churches... and two more a block away, none of them have/use bells... i believe out of respect for the people living around the churches.

I work an odd shift and I would be woken up by the sun down call. But, with a two minute long noise, I'd fall right back asleep, just as if I recieved a phone call. I have also had to listen to church bells that last for more than two minutes that have never been a bother.

I don't see how this is different from being forced to see obnoxious Christmas decorations for 2 months (thanksgiving through january) or having to hear the announcments from the local pool 24 times a day for 3+ months. I'm sure hearing a foriegn language will be strange the first two or three times, but if you aren't responding to the call to prayer, then it'll fall into background noise.

Also, how is this more disruptive than, say, one fo the processions my church holds annually? You get major streets being closed, a car with loud speakers driving up the streets spouting out prayers, and hundreds of people walking and singing and praying for 2 or 3 hours throughout the neighborhood, yet I have never heard of a complaint about that. But, I'm sure I would if it were a bunch of Muslims with headdresses and speaking in a foriegn tounge.

[[NAKED] Young DVP]

After reading my last post, I realized that it was pretty harsly worded. I am sorry, I do have a tendancy to get on my soap-box from time to time.

The fact is - right or wrong - that this is more about a fear of 'Muslim Invasion' than anything else. If it were Jerry Falwell preaching over a loudspeaker 5 times a day, then you might get some eye-rolls and a few gripes but that's about it. What this comes down to is that we live in a day and age where Muslims and... well just about anyone else... don't get along very well - especiallly here in the US. At least that radical, non-Muslim hating sect anyways. We probably have as much disdain for the Islam religion in this country as they do for us in the more dangerous parts of the world. We just don't blow up busses and behead innocent civilians in the name of whomever we choose to call God.

Until the world becomes a kinder, friendlier and safer place you will see a lot of 'intolerance' (yes, I used that word) of this sort. I can forsee a lot of ugliness growing out of a situation such as this "Call to Prayer" controversy. Makes me scared for myself, my family and my country.

[Uthor]

Young DVP]Until the world becomes a kinder, friendlier and safer place you will see a lot of 'intolerance' (yes, I used that word) of this sort. I can forsee a lot of ugliness growing out of a situation such as this "Call to Prayer" controversy. Makes me scared for myself, my family and my country.

I agree. And that is a very good reason to not allow this call to prayer. However, I believe the controversy and the forcing of people to come to grips with this situation is good for everybody involved. I've always thought the pushing the limits of what everybody thinks and feels in a good thing, if not changing people minds, then forcing them to strengthen their opinions (meaning that if you blindly disagree with something, coming in contact with opposite views will either show you the err of your ways, or make you come up with valid reasons for your thinking).

The only alternative to pushing people's comfort zones is suppressing all that is controversial, and that scares me more than dissent.

[[NAKED] Mithis]

I really don't see the problem with it. Dissman you might notice on sundays the church beside the YSU alum building has a big speaker that they broadcast thier whole service over. The only time it shouldn't be allowed is if there is a noise law in effect in the area for hospitals and such.

[Dissman]

I really don't see the problem with it. Dissman you might notice on sundays the church beside the YSU alum building has a big speaker that they broadcast thier whole service over. The only time it shouldn't be allowed is if there is a noise law in effect in the area for hospitals and such.

I didnt know that, Mithis... (you should know better than to think that i get up before noon on sundays) but now that i do, i wonder if the people in Kilcawley house get upset about that, since it is like right next door... but then, the students that live around there should have the right to ask the church not to do it if it's bothering them... that's my only issue... where i live, between the two churches, i'm frequently woken up by them plowing their parking lots in the winter... and no amount of getting used to that stops it... and if it was muslim, a broadcast call to worship would drive me friggin nuts... i'd probably wake me up one or two times a day. (I sleep in a bit) The issue at hand is being respectful of others and their right to be left alone.

And the issue at hand is that town has noise laws in effect and they want to amend them to specifically allow this call to worship... and once amended it wont matter where the mosques are.

[Dissman]

Well, with the car stereo, you can call the cops, if they catch him, they'll give him a ticket, imagine it being a mosque, blasting out religious doctrine at top volume in a foreign language... and there's nothing you can do about it. If i'm not mistaken, the first call to prayer is at the crack of dawn. Imagine working some odd shift, and being woken up every morning by that and not being able to do anything about it but move... i live next to two churches... and two more a block away, none of them have/use bells... i believe out of respect for the people living around the churches.

I work an odd shift and I would be woken up by the sun down call. But, with a two minute long noise, I'd fall right back asleep, just as if I recieved a phone call. I have also had to listen to church bells that last for more than two minutes that have never been a bother.

I don't see how this is different from being forced to see obnoxious Christmas decorations for 2 months (thanksgiving through january) or having to hear the announcments from the local pool 24 times a day for 3+ months. I'm sure hearing a foriegn language will be strange the first two or three times, but if you aren't responding to the call to prayer, then it'll fall into background noise.

As for christmas decorations, people are, within reason, allowed to decorate their property however they want within reason... sight is diffrent than sound... sound pollution travels across property lines, through walls and windows, invading your and everyone elses private and personal space.

People file noise complaints all the time, in fact... people wanted to force the FAA to modify the regs about plane ID numbers and forcing them to paint two foot tall numbers under the wings to make it easier to file noise complaints... people can and probably do complain about the public pool... but, if the people making the noise are religious organizations, you may not be able to enforce any rules on them without encroaching on their freedoms.

Also, how is this more disruptive than, say, one fo the processions my church holds annually? You get major streets being closed, a car with loud speakers driving up the streets spouting out prayers, and hundreds of people walking and singing and praying for 2 or 3 hours throughout the neighborhood, yet I have never heard of a complaint about that. But, I'm sure I would if it were a bunch of Muslims with headdresses and speaking in a foriegn tounge.

If i were to say two words about a muslim parade, i'd be considered intolerant... but, i say, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander... if the muslims want a parade, cool... go for it. But, if at any time the christians or anyone else are denied their parade, everyone should be denied equally... as long as everyone involved went to the trouble to get the proper permits.

[Princess]

I enjoy it. It's very peaceful, beautiful, and spiritual. Even though I'm not Muslim, it sure would remind me to pray 5 times a day. And you can never have enough prayer when you are a spiritual person. I'd LOVE to see America become a spiritual country. I love the idea of living in such a diverse country, it's too bad that cultural assimilation is so "necessary." Language, I understand, it's important to learn the main language of a country, but there are traditions that I would like to see implemented in our country.

[steaLer]

wtf guys!! keep it short and summarized, so maybe more people can read without missing work.

i remember, in India, muslims used to blow it out load, and also, from my last trip to middle-east (dubai U.A.E.), they blow it out loud too. i don't remember what point i was trying to make. errr....

DVP, i would dare to say that the basis of lawsuits against blasting muslim prayers would be that it will reduce property values of the neighborhood. because, most people do not want to live next to that kind of stuff.
church bells don't bother most people.

there were cases file in some suburb of chicago against a muslim commnuity renting a school building and using it for prayers. the basis of the lawsuit was "lost property value". needless to say, the muslim organization was forced out. sad, but true. but i would do the same if i lived in that neighborhood too.
money talks.

[ferret]

wtf guys!! keep it short and summarized, so maybe more people can read without missing work.

Let's not. Detail and length are encouraged in this forum.

[Dissman]

I enjoy it. It's very peaceful, beautiful, and spiritual. Even though I'm not Muslim, it sure would remind me to pray 5 times a day. And you can never have enough prayer when you are a spiritual person. I'd LOVE to see America become a spiritual country.

When the courts jump in and try to regulate who can pray and where... you can never become a spiritual nation when you have to worry about the repercussions of being spiritual.

I love the idea of living in such a diverse country, it's too bad that cultural assimilation is so "necessary." Language, I understand, it's important to learn the main language of a country, but there are traditions that I would like to see implemented in our country.

Honestly, there are a lot of people who never bother to learn english, even here in youngstown, you go deep enough into the east side, and i've been told of a hispanic community, where half of the people in the town can't speak english, and it's becoming even more of a problem...

As for cultural traditions... I think i lost interest in the whole diversity thing when i realized that the definition of diversity is "anyone but me"

[Princess]

As for cultural traditions... I think i lost interest in the whole diversity thing when i realized that the definition of diversity is "anyone but me"

Yeah, at least in America you aren't considered diverse... But diversity has so many benefits, even you aren't diverse on the outside you can still be diverse on the inside. On the outside, I'm your typical white girl. On the inside I speak more than one language and come from an Eastern religious background. I understand that it's frustrating to not feel "special" or whatever, but really getting to know other cultures can be quite fascinating. That and living in other societies can make you feel like you're different. When I was in Ghana I learned a LOT about their culture and realized that the world is not just about America. I dunno, I don't really think I can explain well the importance of unity in diversity at the moment. I'm kinda tired (4am). I guess what I'm saying is, if you only care about the categories that you fall into, you won't learn very much.

[[NAKED] Young DVP]

I admire the fact that you want to experience the world and different cultures, Princess. I agree that you can get a lot from such endeavors. However, the point is that some (and I venture to say that MOST people) do not want a different culture shoved down our necks. That's what we have VACATIONS for. When it's over, we go home.

There is a certain comfort in the fact that I know the same language as the guy at the 7-Eleven (pfft! as if!) in knowing that my kids aren't going to have to hear school lessons twice - and one time not in a language they understand. Different cultures in this country are fine and I support them. But encroaching them upon others to satisfy one's own needs - or perhaps desire to include or even CONVERTS others into yours - is wrong.