Web Technology

[squeak]

Ok, 4 years ago I was under the impression that xhtml was going to completely take over and become the new standard, and that we would be seeing tons of new documents using the xml family.

WTH?

Will xhtml ever be the standard? Will css ever truely encompass the design end while xhtml is the layout end? Will tables ever go extinct in favor of div layers? Does the w3.org group just give "suggestions"?

Im kind of frustrated with being taught one way, being told it was the right way, but seeing alot of poop out there still. Take for example, my JOKE of a Graphic Communications course. My (insert hate comment here) instructor assigned us a tut from a book to do a simple webpage in dreamweaver with (I hate dreamweaver by the way, Id rather just use a textpad based program... like textpad). So many students, who really didnt know what they where doing, where creating absolute CRAP as resume websites and the instructor felt fine with it. (when I say crap, I am refering to the 16pt to 32pt centered text with a few links and horizontal rules thrown in, and the over empowering picture that sucks the life out of 56k connections).

I think the point of this thread is... Do you guys think that standards, techniques etc will improve or finaly be adopted in the near future?

[ThriKreen]

Well, I think your first step is knowing better, which you already do. Unfortunately a lot of employers would like, only look at the end result, they won't care if the page could be optimized... this is why I'm purposely doing my best to avoid going back into IT related jobs because it cycles so fast, and yet certain people (namely the employers) don't and can't keep up with that speed.

I think the second step is to research into your potential job place and see what sort of attitude it has on technology - is it an early adopter, one who waits for it to mature, or a dinosaur who exists solely on brandname?

It's probably changing right now with the more tech savvy geeks taking more positions of management though, but it might not encounter enough saturation to make a difference for another 5-10 years.

[darien]

XHTML is the standard. HTML has been deprecated and is no longer the acceptable way of doing things. Tables will not go away as they are the preferred method of organizing tabular data. However, their use for layout and presentation is greatly waning.

If you want to see the true separation of presentation and content that is at the heart of CSS and XHTML, you have to go no further than http://www.csszengarden.com/ - just click any of the "designs" in the list and you will see that ONLY the CSS changes. The XHTML is identical on every page.

The W3 can only provide suggestions, as they are not a regulatory body and can not enforce anything. Just like Betty Crocker can suggest how you might make delicious coookies, but can't stop you from putting earthworms or beetle dung into your recipes.

Just like in politics, you need to look at the left and look at the right and choose where your position is going to be, then stand firm... until things change again.

[Canon]

XHTML + css is the way things should be done. Use them in the future. Just like indenting your nested tags, there is always going to be some steps that people will skip because they can. Do what you know to be right. Yes, eventually the industry will come around.

[squeak]

Wow, that site is amazing.

If xhtml is the standard, then why are Graphic Com teachers OK with sloppy, half-assed representations of html? They relie on programs like dreamweaver to do all the thinking for them, and it frustrates the hell out of me because then all these other students are going to go out into the world thinking its OK to do slop.

[Canon]

I use dreamweaver. Then again, I also manage many websites. It's just easier to do. Keep in mind that 95% of the time I'm utilizing the "code view". But it helps to tab over to "design-view" to see what you've created.

Making changes to your html, php, css, etc is made extremely simple with Dreamweaver. I think many people confuse it for a gui crutch. While it's true that you could get by just building a website in design view, that's not where the strength lies in my opinion.

I use it the same way I use visual studio or emacs for programming. You could easily just write everything in a text editor, but when you start managing hundreds of inter-dependant websites, you need something to help you keep track of it all.

[darien]

I can't tell you why the instructors are doing what you claim, but I can tell you this with relative certainty:

XML is, per definition, a non-tolerant data format. Either an XML file is CORRECT or it is INCORRECT. The proper response for any application that is written to deal with XML, and finds a poorly formatted file, is to reject it and stop processing immediately.

XHTML is an intermediate step between HTML (a subset of SGML) and XML (a true data format). While every browser these days will pretty much accept any HTML/XHTML crap that you give it, in the future browsers will not be tolerant of poorly structured data, and will likely reject it and stop processing immediately.

This is already the case with WML used for cell phones and other mobile devices.

So, if you must be sloppy -- you have a limited time to do it. If you want to do things that have lasting value, do it right.