VALVe's Server lists

[ferret]

I thought I'd update some people on this. A while back I mentioned a possible reason for the emptiness of the HL based servers. That reason was that VALVe sorted their server list by the last octet of the IP, and sent it to the client in that order. Most people don't wait for the whole list, they get a couple thousand servers and hit stop, join up, and don't care that there's others.

Our IPs end with 250-254, so we were at the bottom of the list.

VALVe has changed the list again though. We seem to be in a slightly better running now, in general, against other dedicated servers, but all is not well it seems.

I haven't figured out the new criteria, but it seems servers hosted by users at home (Via DSL and Cable) are being pumped out to users first, with the servers on more dedicated connections being at the back of the list. This has of course lead to emails of outrage on the mailing lists, as people who spent money getting .1-.5 IPs now have 0 players after months of being full 24/7, or even people who just had a good thing going suddenly without any traffic.

I'm (We're) still trying to figure out how VALVe is ordering the damn list, because there has to be something they use to determine whether a server is a true dedicated or a home box. Word is one guy brought a dinky old Celeron home from work just to test this out, plugged it in and even with 150+ ping had an 8 slot CS server full within 5 minutes and it stayed that way for 5 hours before he turned it off.

[Tim-The-Enchanter]

My list sorts by lowest ping at the top. I join the lowest pinging server with 7-15 people on it and a good map. I don't see how the IP factors into the sorting. With filters on to remove empty, full, bots, and passworded servers the list loads very fast (at least for CZ).

[ferret]

You're missing the point. Your filters are applied AFTER you get the list. Most players do not wait for the entire 18000+ server list. They tell it to stop refreshing after a few thousand. So if the sorting method of the master server sorts put your server at the bottom of the list, you never get seen.

The CS server list is so large (30000+) that the master server only sends you the first 17000-19000 anyways. So the order in how the master server sorts it is VERY important to server owners.

We don't like paying a hefty sum of cash each month for an empty server.

[ferret]

The word is that the sorting is now going by first octet, and possibly followed by second, then third, and fourth, on down the line.

Our first octet is 67, which puts us a lot closer to the top of the stack than previously, but a lot of cable and DSL companies are ahead of us (The 66 range comes to mind, which very very heavily populated range). Class A ranges are the largest networks, so we're a ways down, but not dead last anymore.

[Tim-The-Enchanter]

I see. I thought the filters were getting applied first. I haven't really played CS since CZ came out. I know I've never looked for this server (or FCS) on the server list, always had it in favs, so I never noticed where it ended up.

Seems like it would be a good idea for valve to get the slow people farther down the list...

[ferret]

Well, the optimal solution.. or rather.. the fair solution.. Would be to send out the server list in a random order, or maybe rotate the list. (Ie, server list is sorted by first octet, but after an hour it rotates.. 66. gets moved from the front to the back, and each moves forward like a queue)

[darien]

I may be way out of line here, but I seem to recall that the process of getting a server list onto your local computer went something like this:

1. You specify the settings (full servers, empty servers, which mod, east, west, etc)
2. Your copy of steam queries the entire server list
3. ONLY those that match your critera are returned
4. Then your local steam does ping checks and sorts the results

[ferret]

That may be the case, but all the sorting is done after you have the list.

[Uthor]

I think I once played at a place that had two servers. If you tried joining the one that was full, you'd get automatically disconnected and automatically connected to the other one.

If this were true, would there be a way of "tricking" people into playing on GH? Like, I think you mentioned above, setting up a cable connection server which would appear earlier on the list, then redirecting all that traffic to the normal GH server?

[ThriKreen]

Interesting idea, like have a couple servers that act as seeders based on IP, redirecting people to GH?

[ferret]

That place was us. We tried it for a while, funneling #1 to #2. If someone has a low enough IP and wants to run it, its worth a try. My IP begins with a 65.. Anyone lower?

[blue]

my home ip is a 24. but what would happen to my cable connection? would it go to hell? if so... wouldnt want this challenge.

[ferret]

Probably host a 12 slot, but recode the redirect plugin for AMX to forward everyone who connects to GH. Won't eat bandwidth because no one will actually be on it, if the idea works. I can set one up as well.

[ThriKreen]

Hmm, set up a 18 player server, code AMX to pad the number count, then when they try joining, redirect to GH.

Sounds like a plan.

[squeak]

evil. me likes.

[Scurvey Dog]

well i dont know how it filters it but when i installed steam for the first time in months last week and refreshed the server list GH CS was like 12th down and i was very surprised? so anyway i think were getting pulled fairly quiclky

[acme420]

awww crap the cicada's have invaded.

on the topic i just refreshed all the servers list.

filter is for Cs only, all servers, in the whole world pinging under 600. GH isnt even in the list.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/acme420/gamehavoc.jpg

*edit* yes i know i have it set to filter out empty servers. i unchecked that and gh still doesnt show up. i think i will try refreshing again and see if that helps. it should determine whther the filters are applied before or after we grab the list.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/acme420/gamehavoc2.jpg

well after i unchecked the shot empty servers option and click refresh all it took a good 2 minutes to download 9800+ servers. and that was when i saw GH. so it seems the filters are applied when you request the list and not after. as for what order gh is when being pulled. i dont know. i assume it would depend on how far away the person is from the server. pingwise.

the filters are also still applied in realtime but i think they also affect which servers are pulled from the master server list when you refresh the list the first time. once i reticked that hide empty severs button it went to 4454 servers in the list from the 9000+ so thats over 5000 empty servers. whether they are always empty is another question...but thats a lot of empty servers.