this thread is about the Christian God -- is there one?

[blue]

There is no god. Prove me wrong.

[SavaThePriest]

Why? I agree with you.

Even if I were to argue, you have to provide supporting evidence for your position.

[Canon]

There is no god. Prove me wrong.

Justify your existence beyond the infinitesimally small possibility of life spontaneously manifesting itself on this particular planet amongst the unfathomable reaches of the uncharted universe.

He doesn't have to add evidence.

He provided the premise of an argument. Now you can take steps to logically refute it. Sadly, you cannot logically infer the existance of god.

[ferret]

Bad topic. You're defining "God" as Christians define god. There's many many more ideas concerning a "high being" or something spiritual that is beyond the world we see. You're just contesting one facet of religion. I could say I don't believe in God, and still believe in any number of ideals that contain a superior being or conscience.

[blue]

well... where to start. I have so many issues with the whole bible version of god. to start with , I suppose Adam and eve. we cant keep mating with out siblings and end up with "perfect" children. aside from the unacceptable behavior, the genetics don't work out. So I don't understand how Adam and eve could have possible spurred the beginning of all humanity...

next, lets hit dino's. c'mon. did I miss that in the bible? that's one of my things. you cant argue with physical evidence.

God 0 Dino's 1.

those two are huge in my mind. Then we can go as far as "are you alone in this universe"? I certainly don't think so. I believe there is enough evidence to say there is "something alien" out there. dunno what. but something is there.

on that, did god create the aliens? -- Oh total side though here, who wrote the first chapters when "god made the world" as they were done before people existed...

anyway... I see no equivocal proof that a god exists therefore I can not believe.

[Canon]

How the hell did you get THIS:
well... where to start. I have so many issues with the whole bible version of god. to start with , I suppose Adam and eve. we cant keep mating with out siblings and end up with "perfect" children. aside from the unacceptable behavior, the genetics don't work out. So I don't understand how Adam and eve could have possible spurred the beginning of all humanity...

next, lets hit dino's. c'mon. did I miss that in the bible? that's one of my things. you cant argue with physical evidence.

God 0 Dino's 1.

those two are huge in my mind. Then we can go as far as "are you alone in this universe"? I certainly don't think so. I believe there is enough evidence to say there is "something alien" out there. dunno what. but something is there.

on that, did god create the aliens? -- Oh total side though here, who wrote the first chapters when "god made the world" as they were done before people existed...

anyway... I see no equivocal proof that a god exists therefore I can not believe.
From THIS:
canon]Justify your existence beyond the infinitesimally small possibility of life spontaneously manifesting itself on this particular planet amongst the unfathomable reaches of the uncharted universe.

I didn't mention Adam, Eve, or anything related to a judeo-christian god. Read my post and respond within those lines.

[ferret]

As I said, this thread is about the Christian God, not spirituality or any other religious ideals. Perhaps that should be clearified in the title?

Besides, anyone who isn't a hardcore close minded "God will pwn j00" Christian will openly admit the Bible should never be taken literally, but is instead a collection of stories meant to explain or illustrate various moral points, etc, etc.

[acme420]

god is an idea people used in the past to control the populace. it has no place in modern times. people today are smarter and telling them a magical being hiding in the clouds will smite them if they get out of line wont work anymore. thats why we have george bush.

[Canon]

Agreed, ferret. Still, where the hell did Blue come up with that after what I posted? I wasn't asking him to refute the existence of god... I was asking him to explain where he thinks he(blue) came from.

[meaty]

next, lets hit dino's. c'mon. did I miss that in the bible? that's one of my things. you cant argue with physical evidence.

God 0 Dino's 1.
What place do dinosaurs have in the Bible?

[Canon]

Somewhere between Creation and Modern Man. He's referring to the fact that dinosaurs romed the earth before man existed... but that God, according to the Bible, created the whole earth and Man in 7 days.

Again, the non-nazi faction of christianity doesn't take the bible literally... instead we view it as a set of moral metaphors.

[acme420]

theres a non nazi faction? i thought all christians were just roaming the earth for total domination?

[Doc Wattson]

All kids should learn the love of God through this site. (http://objective.jesussave.us/kidz.html) Kanga Jew will show you!!! Just go to the first triva question. "Hey professor! Haven't Dinos been extinct for millions of years?" The answer, "Wrong little buddy...Dinosaurs still still walk the land (http://objective.jesussave.us/dinoexpedition.html) and swim the seas! And the earth is less then 10,000 years old!"

God I love that site. Still crack up when I read:

"If you find an Atheist in your neighborhood,
TELL A PARENT OR PASTOR RIGHT AWAY!

You may be moved to try and witness to
these poor lost souls yourself, however
AVOID TALKING TO THEM!

Atheists are often very grumpy and bitter and will lash out at children or they may even try to trick you into neglecting God's Word.

Very advanced witnessing techniques are needed for these grouches. Let the adults handle them."

Plus anyone website that sells a crucifixtion nail (http://objective.jesussave.us/crucifixnail.png) as a toy for 5+ gets my vote!

-Gary-

[Doc Wattson]

theres a non nazi faction? i thought all christians were just roaming the earth for total domination?

No, not all christians are into world domination. Saying all Christians are for world Domination is like saying all Muslims are in Al-Quada.

My personal belief is that the Gods weren't created to controll the people but rather to explain how the world works. Most Eygytian Gods were very practical. Why does the Sun move accross the sky? Oh, there is this guy in a charriot that drags it around. Why does the water flow down the Nile? Oh, there is this guy in a boat that is pushing the water forward. As science explained this facts people went from Gods to one God. That is when, IMO of course, religion went from explaintion to controlling.

-Gary-

[ferret]

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

[Doc Wattson]

Sorry to post three times in a row but I was looking over JesusSave.us and saw they had a new Kidz Art Gallery (http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart.html). Here are some of the great works from kids out there.

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-fakedinomuseum.png

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-jesus-saurus.png
"Jesus is riding to Jerusalem on a T-Rex!"

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-ninjabible2.png
"LOL means Love Our Lord!
LOL! LOL! LOL!"

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-wewerebad.png
In case you didn't go to the kidz quiz those are the Atheist, the Hindu, and the Muslim burning in hell.

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-badsanta.png

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-atheistontheloose.png

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-passionofthechrist.png

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-myfavorites.png
Hell yea, Yankees are in heaven!!

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-noahandtrex.png
What did the guy in the water do?

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-jle.png

-Gary-

[Nefarious]

god is an idea people used in the past to control the populace. it has no place in modern times. people today are smarter and telling them a magical being hiding in the clouds will smite them if they get out of line wont work anymore. thats why we have george bush.

First off, I am strongly offended by that.


As for this topic, I think it is a great topic, especially since I have gone to a Catholic school since my freshman year in HS. You people must understand that the first few chapters of the bible are infact, stories.

Another thing you must understand is that the people you wrote the bible were "led by God." The Holy Spirit descended apon the writers so that they COULD write the beginning.

And, as ferret said, there is a lot in the bible that should not be taken literally (no offense to those of Jewish heritage).

When it says that everything was made in 7 days by God, that is often interpreted wrong. The 7 days simbolizes the 7 days of our week. And techniquely, he did it in 6 "days" because he rested on the 7th. But anyway, 7 days could mean 7 years, 7 trillion years, or even 7 hours. Have you ever heard the saying: "God shows himself in mysterious ways"? That is what he does through out the bible. He trys not to reveal to much of himself at one time. Why? I don't know, I will have to ask him when I hopefully make my way to heaven. These kinds of stories are spread throughout the Old Testament. The New Testament however, is based more on the actual events.

one last point for now:

It is better to believe and be wrong, than to not believe and be wrong.
(if you catch my drift.)

[Nefarious]

http://objective.jesussave.us/kidzart-fakedinomuseum.png

First: Good post doc :p

Ok, Evolution. I believe in evolution and it is not wrong to believe in it. Dinosaurs existed yes. Darwinism however, I do NOT believe in. You may think they are the same thing, but they are not. Darwinism is the belief in evolution without the help of God. Evolution is the belief that we all came from a one-celled being and overtime, evolved into what we are today. God created that one-celled being and helps the evolution from it.

[Nefarious]

And to those that are having conflicted thought about if there is a God, I highly suggest that you meet with a Priest of any Christian based religion or a Rabbi. Both can info you about the existance of God a lot better than I can.

For those who do not believe in God and don't think you will ever convert, I will keep you in my prayers.

[Doc Wattson]

Nef, am I gonna burn in hell?

-Gary-

EDIT: That came off more as a joke then I meant. Just wondering if Nef beleives all non christians are gonna burn in hell.

[blue]

canon]Agreed, ferret. Still, where the hell did Blue come up with that after what I posted? I wasn't asking him to refute the existence of god... I was asking him to explain where he thinks he(blue) came from.

cannon, for the record. i wasnt replying to you. smart ass.

i was just stating my beliefs. no where did i quote you, or reply speciically to you.

[blue]

Ok, i still see no PHYSICAL evidence of a "god" like being. No existinace of an ark. No existance of a "garden of eden".

yet i see evidence of evolution of monkeys into humans... perhaps i misread genesis many many years ago...

26 God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.

so.... god was a monkey?

my point being that evolution and religion are in complete contrast... not to mention alien beings... (i really do believe they exist). when we see them, whats to say about the bible... should we just "update" the bible to a new version, and add the words "outerspace creatures" to the list of things god made?

[Nefarious]

Ok, i still see no PHYSICAL evidence of a "god" like being. No existinace of an ark. No existance of a "garden of eden".

Those are also storys. The thing, Jesus is the physical evidence of God. That is where "faith" comes in.

so.... god was a monkey?

Like I said, God created the one-celled organism that envolved into modern day man. God "indirectly" created us in his own image. You are taking the bible too literally. But then again, image can be interpreted into what God wanted us to be. God could be a giant one-celled organism, or he could look like a freakin lightbulb. We don't know that.

not to mention alien beings... (i really do believe they exist). when we see them, whats to say about the bible... should we just "update" the bible to a new version, and add the words "outerspace creatures" to the list of things god made?

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

have you heard the universe outside of earth being called, the heavens? I hear it all the time. When they say God created the heavens and the earth, it LITERALLY means God created Earth and heaven. But if you look "outside the box", it means God created Earth and the rest of the universe.

Nef, am I gonna burn in hell?

-Gary-

EDIT: That came off more as a joke then I meant. Just wondering if Nef beleives all non christians are gonna burn in hell.

that is not for me to decide, it is for God to decide. But no, I am not a person who believes all non christians are going to hell.

EDIT: But Doc, yes... you will... j/k =p

[blue]

Neff, they give us this big book. they tell us to study it. learn it. live it.

if its just a "story" then why not call religion a fairy tale? again, my point is that its taught as "This is what happened". i disagree with you saying its not literal... cause i remember all through church and sunday school that "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED".

[Nefarious]

they always tell that to the little kids so that they are interested. Once you get a little older, you learn.

[Nefarious]

These kinds of stories are spread throughout the Old Testament. The New Testament however, is based more on the actual events.

[Nefarious]

http://www.christnotes.org/bible.asp?ViewBible=Genesis+1&Version=KJV

[StealthMonkey]

What it really comes down to in the end, when deciding if the "Christian God" exists is evolution vs creation. If the theory of evolution is true, then there really is no need or place for a god. On the other hand, if the theory of creation is true, then there is a god.

Believing that God created the universe also allows for explanation of everything in the Bible that may seem "not right," illogical, or contradictory to science. If God did in fact create the physical universe, then he would not be bound to it; which would therefore allow for "super-natural events" such as a man surviving in a whale's acidic stomach for three days, or any other story from the Bible.

As far as I am concerned, along with many other problems I have with the theory of evolution, it completely contradicts the second law of thermodynamics which roughly states that "A system, when not acted upon by an external force, follows the course of order to disorder." You will never convince me that one cell organisms randomly evolved by chance into not only the extremely complicated human body, but the rest of world too.

So in the end it comes down to how we got here and which theory you believe. One points to a god, the other doesn't. Either way it's faith, there is no absolutes. Which theory is more convincing. Research them both deeply, and that will point you in the direction of answering the question if god exists.

[Canon]

Ok, i still see no PHYSICAL evidence of a "god" like being.


not to mention alien beings... (i really do believe they exist)

Irony, anyone?

[Doc Wattson]

canon]Ok, i still see no PHYSICAL evidence of a "god" like being.


not to mention alien beings... (i really do believe they exist)

Irony, anyone?

ROFL.

-Gary-

[Canon]

I disagree with you saying its not literal... cause i remember all through church and sunday school that "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED".

That was your sunday school. And in your Sunday School teacher's perversion of the text, those things HAPPENED.

At some point tonight or tomorrow I'm going to get into a very lengthy explanation of the difference between christianity and catholocism.

[SavaThePriest]

The bible, as we know it, has been translated and rewritten so many times that its original meanings have more than likely been twisted. Jesus and his 12(? not religious, going from memory) apostles may just as likely been Jim and 12 guys going to a stag party.

[squeak]

Nef, I must say, you have definetely changed some of my views on the christian religion.

[blue]

canon]Ok, i still see no PHYSICAL evidence of a "god" like being.


not to mention alien beings... (i really do believe they exist)

Irony, anyone?

yeah, i guess i laughed there too...
but they have photos of those things in teh skys, film of them on tape... :/ i believe it...

[Canon]

Frisbees, man... frisbees. :)

[acme420]

im gonna bow out of this thread cuz i dont want to further offend anyone, and trust me you will be offended. with a capital D.

[Nefarious]

Nef, I must say, you have definetely changed some of my views on the christian religion.

Awesome.

[ferret]

canon]At some point tonight or tomorrow I'm going to get into a very lengthy explanation of the difference between christianity and catholocism.

Unfortunately, you cannot make this explaination. Much to the annoyance of the Protestant religions, Catholocism IS Christian, and is in fact the original. Get over it. The best you can do is Catholic vs Protestant.

No matter how much the Baptists (Or others) claim the Catholics are all going to hell and worship Mary and the Devil, etc, its not how it works. In many ways, I feel Protestants (Hundreds of years ago) split from the Catholics to take the "easy way" out.. to cut out things they didn't like, trim the fat, etc.. Let's remove this bit of dogma, that's too much work.. A lot more work goes into being a Catholic than being a Protestant.

And yes, I'm quite aware of Martin Luther and how he split from the Catholic Church due to the corruption of his time. What Protestants tend to forget and conviently never mention is that Luther claimed to be Catholic to his dying day and never wanted the Church split. In a way, the Protestant churches that followed due to his protest of corruption have gone against his wishes.

[Nefarious]

No matter how much the Baptists (Or others) claim the Catholics are all going to hell and worship Mary

Yea, about that. We do not worship Mary. Well, we worship her as the mother of our Lord, but it isn't like she is a false idol made out of gold. People think that because we say the Hail Mary that we think she is God. We pray THROUGH her. (kinda hard to explain it without saying something that degrades Mary.)

[steaLer]

There is no god. Prove me wrong.
here is the basic arguement from theologians for a question like yours, and from their point of view, it makes sense: "You cannot prove God because God is bigger and beyond man and its limited brain power and cannot be understood. That is why he/she IS God."

You cannot challenge religion with science because of the two very different foundations. however, i am an atheist and voted for the third option.

[steaLer]

hahaha so aliens are made in the image of god?

god is an idea people used in the past to control the populace. it has no place in modern times. people today are smarter and telling them a magical being hiding in the clouds will smite them if they get out of line wont work anymore. thats why we have george bush.
exactly my conclusion, except for bush, unless god wanted more oil.

[Nefarious]

hahaha so aliens are made in the image of god?

where did that come from?

[Nefarious]

Sorry to bring up such a sensative topic on these forums, but if you don't believe in God, I would like to hear how you would explain this. Ladder 6, a team of firefighters had reached the 27th floor of the North WTC tower before they were ordered to evacuate the building immediately. They started their decent and when they reached the 4th floor, the build collapsed. Each floor fell onto the next starting from the top in cascading style. The firefighters where saved, untouched. How could they possible live without the help of a Godly being?

[SavaThePriest]

Nef- I can't give you a solid answer, but how about you reverse that:

If there was a God, how come he saved these people but let others die in the rubble?

Chance, probabilities, structural integrety of that particular location (guessing stairwell) are what I'm going with.

[Community Nub Shauce]

Sava, the catholic religion teaches that god does not control everything and that humans have a concience, of course, the human concience has nothing to do with the death of a person. But there are probably 3 facts that one could conisder
1. Im not sure about the CATHOLIC religion itself, but i believe the devil also has control over worldy happenings.. which is maybe why those people werent saved.
2. Maybe the people that died in there were greedy. Greed is a sin, obviously.
3. God saved the firefighters because they were risking their lives to save others, which corresponds with the teaching of love and compassion in the catholic religon.

Thats just my opinion though, im not a huge religion guy

[Nub-Shtrike]

Im jewish. just stating my religion, now i shall go on.

How was the universe created, which came first emptyness or fullness? was there a first. how is it possible for a universe to exist etc. if it "is" there is a beginning. who/what.

God is an explaination. you cannot explain and explaination can you?
idk just stuff coming to my head..


i like boobies. kthxbi

[krazyjuice]

lol.
A god is something different to all people. It is just an idea of things that man cannot determine on his own.
I am actually amazed that more people voted for no than yes.

[krazyjuice]

canon]Ok, i still see no PHYSICAL evidence of a "god" like being.


not to mention alien beings... (i really do believe they exist)

Irony, anyone?

yeah, i guess i laughed there too...
but they have photos of those things in teh skys, film of them on tape... :/ i believe it...

Blue, look closely at some Renassiance paintings and frescos.
You will often find people in the background looking up at a small disc in the sky. Pretty crazy.

[cr0nick]

there is no god you idiots

[4matic]

there is no god you idiots dont be a shmuck.

[blue]

There is no god. Prove me wrong.

[ferret]

There is no god. Prove me wrong.

I'm going to lock this thread. The debate is not proceeding maturely. If you wish to make another attempt, create a new thread.

Please don't bother though if your argument is merely "Prove me wrong." ... Religion is based on faith and belief, not fact, and as such there will be no physical evidence for you to take and examine. If your thread serves no purpose but to try to stir up those with religious beliefs, please don't waste our time.